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	<title>Comments on: Clarification from MS - and time to eat some humble pie?</title>
	<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gavin</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-895</link>
		<author>Gavin</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-895</guid>
		<description>There is no way of combining patents with open source software. There will always be a requirement for an application implementing the open source specification to use technologies protected by a patent.

It is impossible for MS to abandon their patents, as there is no guarantee that other companies would not attept to undermine them, and at the same time they are under pressure to adhere to open standards.
To create an open source standard, which still includes their own inventions and those which they have acquired, they need to turn a blind eye the use of their IP.  There is no guarantee, should they find their market position undermined by these uses of their IP, that their future leadership will not have a change of heart and begin to pursue these patents and take civil action against non-profit organisations which have no method to defend themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no way of combining patents with open source software. There will always be a requirement for an application implementing the open source specification to use technologies protected by a patent.</p>
<p>It is impossible for MS to abandon their patents, as there is no guarantee that other companies would not attept to undermine them, and at the same time they are under pressure to adhere to open standards.<br />
To create an open source standard, which still includes their own inventions and those which they have acquired, they need to turn a blind eye the use of their IP.  There is no guarantee, should they find their market position undermined by these uses of their IP, that their future leadership will not have a change of heart and begin to pursue these patents and take civil action against non-profit organisations which have no method to defend themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scholes</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-85</link>
		<author>John Scholes</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Well, I am not qualified to practise law anywhere, so what follows is not legal advice you should rely on. But yes, it is fairly clear in most jurisdictions that the OSP is legally binding. The laws on promises to marry are quite different.

Why not the same as Sun? Well, I think the major software companies are still feeling their way on this. The OSP would be excellent except for the problem about optional elements of the standard. Most standards do not have such widespread optional elements, so it is possible that the problem is inadvertent. But in that case MS need to vary the OSP in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am not qualified to practise law anywhere, so what follows is not legal advice you should rely on. But yes, it is fairly clear in most jurisdictions that the OSP is legally binding. The laws on promises to marry are quite different.</p>
<p>Why not the same as Sun? Well, I think the major software companies are still feeling their way on this. The OSP would be excellent except for the problem about optional elements of the standard. Most standards do not have such widespread optional elements, so it is possible that the problem is inadvertent. But in that case MS need to vary the OSP in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-79</link>
		<author>Andre</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 23:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-79</guid>
		<description>/* Why do they? I think that it is abundently clear that the OSP goes way beyond what is required for an ISO standard. */

That is irrelevant as ISO does require rand as the bare minimum.

Is the OSP usable as evidence in court? Is a "promise" legally proof. If I promise to marry someone, I am not bound. If I promise you to ignore OOXML I can still use it. So how much is a promise worth, with a  worldwide perspective? Is it legally proof. 

Why doesn't Microsoft offer the same conditions as SUN does?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/* Why do they? I think that it is abundently clear that the OSP goes way beyond what is required for an ISO standard. */</p>
<p>That is irrelevant as ISO does require rand as the bare minimum.</p>
<p>Is the OSP usable as evidence in court? Is a &#8220;promise&#8221; legally proof. If I promise to marry someone, I am not bound. If I promise you to ignore OOXML I can still use it. So how much is a promise worth, with a  worldwide perspective? Is it legally proof. </p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t Microsoft offer the same conditions as SUN does?</p>
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		<title>By: John Scholes</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-71</link>
		<author>John Scholes</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Could we just stick to one thing at a time? Which parts of Ecma 376 does the OSP cover? It apparently covers “only the required portions” plus the “required elements of the optional portions”. What does that mean? Since Ecma 376 states that a conforming implementation does not have to cover anything, there are apparently no "required portions" and no "required elements", so the OSP is completely void in relation to Ecma 476. In that case it certainly does not meet ISO/IEC requirements. &lt;em&gt;If that is not what it means, could MS please make an official clarification asap.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could we just stick to one thing at a time? Which parts of Ecma 376 does the OSP cover? It apparently covers “only the required portions” plus the “required elements of the optional portions”. What does that mean? Since Ecma 376 states that a conforming implementation does not have to cover anything, there are apparently no &#8220;required portions&#8221; and no &#8220;required elements&#8221;, so the OSP is completely void in relation to Ecma 476. In that case it certainly does not meet ISO/IEC requirements. <em>If that is not what it means, could MS please make an official clarification asap.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Stephen McGibbon</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-70</link>
		<author>Stephen McGibbon</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 13:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-70</guid>
		<description>&#62;So, unless I am still missing something or being stupid (more pie), I come back to my earlier conclusion that it is completely unclear whether or not the OSP is sufficient or not, and the National Bodies need to insist as a matter of urgency that MS clarify the position.

Why do they? I think that it is abundently clear that the OSP goes way beyond what is required for an ISO standard. Ultimately each and every implementer has to satisfy themself, and the idea that NBs or ISO can do this for them is plainly misleading.

As I've commented elsewhere on your blog, there are three options implementers can consider. The CNS, the OSP, or the option to enter into a bi-lateral license agreement - one size isn't going to fit all - just as in the case of document formats themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;So, unless I am still missing something or being stupid (more pie), I come back to my earlier conclusion that it is completely unclear whether or not the OSP is sufficient or not, and the National Bodies need to insist as a matter of urgency that MS clarify the position.</p>
<p>Why do they? I think that it is abundently clear that the OSP goes way beyond what is required for an ISO standard. Ultimately each and every implementer has to satisfy themself, and the idea that NBs or ISO can do this for them is plainly misleading.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve commented elsewhere on your blog, there are three options implementers can consider. The CNS, the OSP, or the option to enter into a bi-lateral license agreement - one size isn&#8217;t going to fit all - just as in the case of document formats themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: John Scholes</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-65</link>
		<author>John Scholes</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reference!

"Mrs Turner came in and did bring us an Umble-pie hot out of her oven, extraordinarily good."

Hmmm, maybe not too bad at all, it certainly sounds better than crow, so lucky I am a Brit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reference!</p>
<p>&#8220;Mrs Turner came in and did bring us an Umble-pie hot out of her oven, extraordinarily good.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm, maybe not too bad at all, it certainly sounds better than crow, so lucky I am a Brit!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-64</link>
		<author>Anonymous</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://doyoulovems.com/archives/66#comment-64</guid>
		<description>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/eat-humble-pie.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/eat-humble-pie.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/eat-humble-pie.html</a></p>
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